I have an epic post brought to you by shallow thinking while watching TV! This is almost like a list that I jotted down quickly and expanded on. I hope to go into this stuff in more depth later—unless something shiny catches my eye. But know that this post is like a salad—everything’s thrown in there and it’s been tossed so that it’s all mixed together.
1. I’ve been reading up on how the very words we use reinforce the Patriarchy. And one day, yet again, I found myself “debating” a MRA. He pulled out the old You’re not being logical card and I, of course, refused to deal with him again. These two points came together in my head and I realized what he had done—probably without even realizing it. Stereotype: women are emotional, men are logical. The evidence for this is that men say it is so. As men develop the language and they connect bad things with women, they also connect good things with themselves. Logic is good so it is connected with men. Emotions—and by emotions, I don’t mean the emotions that men have because those are OK because men have them and are you enjoying the circular “logic” of this yet?—are bad so they are connected to women. Time passes. Women begin to speak up and guess what? They’re emotional and really can’t be reasoned with. No, no! If a man gets angry during the debate, he’s not emotional. He’s frustrated at the women, who are being emotional. Perfectly logical arguments made by women are dismissed because men claim that the arguments are coming from an emotional place. So, it goes round and round and nothing ever gets accomplished. Also connected to this is the idea that the way the Patriarchy has taught men to think, reason through something, and explain it are the only ways to do these things. Again, dismissive of women, who can’t ever really win because more times than not, they’re debating on male terms.
2. I was doing some needlepoint yesterday. Now, I can do needlepoint like a rock star—one who only plays in his parents’ garage but a rock star nonetheless—but my knitting always looks like it’s been done by a blind baboon. But that’s not the point—the point is that it got me thinking about a great afghan that a nice old lady made and then gave to me at my bridal shower. And then I thought about this great doll I have on my desk that my mother made me—and yeah, you read that right. A doll. She sits up there among all my Superman action figures and she sticks out like a sore thumb but she’s awesome. So, that lead me to think about the women in my life and all that they do—most of them are SAHMs or homemakers. Yet, when you ask them what they do, they say “I’m just a SAHM” or “I’m just a homemaker.” Now, don’t get me wrong. I think women working outside of the home is great and necessary but I think it needs to be taken further than that. I think women’s work needs to be recognized as work and it needs to be held up as something worthwhile. Think of all the art women have done but it’s not considered art because women have created it for the home. Society gives lip service to how important women’s work is but in reality, that work is denigrated. I saw a discussion on this over at TWoP. It was centered on Carmella Soprano and some posters claimed that she (leaving aside the moral questions about why she stays with a criminal husband), by wanting help from her husband to build a house for her to sell, hadn’t earned it because she had never “done” anything. He was “giving” her the money—and if you watch the show, she even refers to it as him “giving” her the money. Even the women who do it feel as if it is worthless. I know this would be a huge shift in the way society looks at women but I think it’s a necessary move. I think it’s more important to recognize what women have done throughout history and what they continue to do, all in the background, than it is to continue to follow the hierarchical system of the patriarchy, which tells women that their work is only worthwhile when it is done on the patriarchy’s terms and by male standards.
3. I was reading the comments over at Shakesville and one was about how American women are spoiled and we have it great so we should keep our mouths shut. Now, leaving aside the fact that many American (and I assume we can stretch this to include women from other Western countries as well) women actually work to help women in other places who may not have it “as good” as we do, this argument, which is almost always from a MRA who has looked into mail-order brides, is sort of linked to #12 (feminists can only do one thing at a time so that means that feminists from Western countries can not work to help women in other areas of the world while they also bring attention to the wrongs still be committed in Western society). Connected to this is the idea that if there are men who are poor or abused, then women shouldn’t complain. Yeah, I know. It makes no sense, if just for the fact that it ignores the idea of a societal hierarchy based on social status, race, and gender which leads there to be, even within the “lowest” strata of society, a hierarchy which forces—you guessed it—POC and women to the bottom. It’s this idea that feminists are sitting in their ivory towers while they complain about a man who leered at their ass. It’s dismissive of everything the feminist movement has done (but don’t worry, in the next breath the MRA will talk about the massive amount of changes that have ruined modern life and they’ve all been brought about by feminism) because there weren’t any real problems for women before the movement. Didn’t you know that? Yeah, and any problem the feminists brought up was made to look worse than it actually was. See? Easy peasy! No real problems = feminists are lying = they don’t have anything to complain about. Or, some women have it worse than you = you have no problems. Of course, it should be noted here that MRA’s feel that they have it worse than everyone else because they have to pay child support. So really, to them, nothing else in the world equals their pain.
4. What about Teh Menz?!?! has to be the biggest and most used red herring ever. In fact, the whole MRA movement is built on it. They cry out, “If you really care about equality, then you want shelters for abused women to include men too!” First of all, his gender did not have to fight for years to get the courts to recognize the fact that someone hitting him, even his spouse = bad. Secondly, women have worked together for years to provide safe places for abused women to go. There is nothing stopping men from also creating such places. And lastly, if there are more shelters for women, then it’s because the need is greater with that group than with men. Help abused men—please! Help them to step forward, to escape the Patriarchal idea of “manhood” so that they can tell someone that they’re being abused, and to get the help they need. But don’t blame feminists for what is a compound problem brought about by Patriarchal expectations of men and the fact that no, men are not abused on the same scale as women are. Throwing up manipulated statistics or moving the goalposts doesn’t help your cause any. Also, the othering the courts do with domestic violence is another gem given to us by the Patriarchy but you know what? This one I’m willing to keep around, at least as long as it keeps the men who would use this argument to weasel their way into the shelter to get to the woman they abused. Here’s a fun fact: feminists fight for gender equality. That means that we work to lift women up from where they’ve been forced to live for thousands of years. If MRAs are concerned about how men are being left out of it all, then maybe they should spend their time helping men who are truly victims and stop whining about child support. That’s the difference between the two movements: feminists want women to have what they have been denied. MRAs, who think they are entitled to their privilege, want to continue to deny women what women have always been denied.
5. Did you know that feminists are the reason that men have to pay child support? Did you also know that they are the reason that many times, the mother gets primary custody of a child during a divorce? No, no! This is not because of the Patriarchy and it’s views on the role of women (primary child care givers) and men (bread-winners)! It has nothing to do with the fact that, historically, women have not worked outside of the home and so have not been able to earn a living like men—and don’t you dare bring up that nonsense about women being paid less. No, this is all because of feminists, who have such power that they were able to legislate these things even though they did not make up a majority of the people in power.
And please, let’s not bring the children into this. That’s just silly.
6. I’ve been wondering if the word “privilege” is being used too much lately. Of course, I had this thought after reading a statement saying that very thing by a guy named sniffmonkeyballs1 over at LJ so maybe I shouldn’t put too much credit into it. But connected to this idea is that some men seem to feel that feminists wish to take something from them. And they do. Feminists want to take away male entitlement, the idea of male superiority, and yes, male privilege. Is that why so many of them are upset? Because they won’t get respect and rights and whatever simply because of their Y chromosome? I guess it would make me “unpleasant” or “too angry” to say “Boo hoo. Cry me a river.” It’s simple really. The Patriarchy has given men benefits that it has denied women. Every human being deserves these things and for one group to deny them from another group is wrong. End of conversation. See? That wasn’t that hard.
As someone said so well:
And Dale Spender in Man Made Language says:
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I would not want to argue that males are not going to ‘lose’ as women conceptualize their new reality since there is no room in it for male supremacy, but I would argue that they are only losing what was not rightfully theirs, but that which they appropriated in the first place.
This is where your typical MRA says, “Yeah, well you have benefits too! If you wear a short skirt a guy will buy you dinner!” At that point, it’s best to walk away because you are dealing with a person who thinks that dinner paid for = men are paid more than a woman, even if they do the same work. No, wait! That’s a feminist lie! Just like when they lie about women being the more abused group—men are more often the abused spouse in a relationship—nagging is abuse! 
See? Lessen true problems and flip it around so that the people with power are made out to be the victims. That’s the MRA approved method.
7. I don’t hate men. I don’t want to kill all the men or ship them away to another country. I don’t hate sex. Got that? So next time I say that I have a problem with porn, don’t ask me why I hate sex. If I talk about male privilege, don’t ask me why I hate men. Those are red herrings and they’re just used to turn away from the real topic being discussed.
8. Hey, Mr. Nice Guy. Guess what? You don’t get it. That’s right. You don’t. If you think you can tell women what feminism is, if you feel as if you need to tell them how to be good feminists, or if you, at any time, lecture women on feminism then you. Don’t. Get. It. Calling yourself a feminist or telling us that you have female friends or that you got your info from a woman doesn’t cut it. Trying to get us to run a marathon in the Oppression Olympics with you is stupid. And if you let misogynistic comments go up on your blog, even if you leave them there because they make you feel better and they tell you that you’re right, it shows not only don’t you get it but that you’re part of the problem. And here’s a secret that the Feminist Army doesn’t want me to share with you: if you have to remind everyone (all the time) that you’re a feminist, then that probably means you aren’t a feminist. At the very least, it means that you aren’t acting like a feminist. And no, you don’t get a cookie for not acting like a jerk. And here’s a shocker: liberal men, gay men, black men, and even WOMEN can do and say misogynistic things! Being a member of any of these groups doesn’t give you a pass on being a misogynist.
This is where you Friendly Neighborhood Male Feminist will say, “That’s not fair! I should be able to be heard too!” No, it’s not fair but I don’t care. In our society, a man’s voice has more power. If a man proceeds to enter into a conversation about feminism with women, he needs to realize that his voice has more power. He also must realize that his reality (his voice is always heard) is not everyone’s reality. If a man does not recognize his male privilege, then he is no ally to feminists. If a woman in the discussion says to the man “Can you just listen for a minute?” then he needs to shut-up. This is not a hard concept. Shut-up. Your free speech should not be used to silence people (not an original statement of mine but found on a message board), which is what happens to women in some mixed-sex conversations about feminism. By the way, that frustration you feel at not being able to say what you think you should be able to say? Yeah, that’s what women have felt for years. You don’t have my sympathy.
9. There is no war against boys. Or masculinity. Unless, of course, your idea of masculinity is a mouth-breather who feels he has a right to yell out sexual comments to women walking along the street, smack around his wife, or be an all-around dick. If this is the case, you should really broaden your idea of masculinity (or better yet, totally throw away your idea of the gender binary!). It’ll help you sleep at night so you won’t be up worrying about how little Johnny isn’t allowed to throw a dodge ball anymore.
10. Feminism is about victim hood. This is a good one. One that I didn’t think people really believed until another “debate” I was involved in had someone quoting Camille Paglia. As someone much smarter than I am noted: The Patriarchy is about victim hood. Feminism is about pointing it out and demanding better.
11. I saw this one time in a “debate.” I kid you not—are you ready? Here it is:
- Person A: The very language we speak reinforces the Patriarchy.
- Person B: This isn’t the whole thing about “he” and “man”, is it?
- Person A: I’ve been reading this book that explains it like this . . .
- Person B: Feminists hate lipstick!!!!!1!!!!11!!!!1
OK, maybe it didn’t happen exactly like that but you get the picture. It’s the stereotype that feminists hate anything . . . feminine (for lack of a better term). No. Wait. It’s the stereotype that feminists hate anything that the Patriarchy tells women is feminine. This does fall into the gender binary, which I have problems with. So yeah, I know that personally I have a problem with it if a woman is doing it because she thinks she has to. But if a woman does it because she really likes it, then let her go to town with her lip liner. But, since so much of this stuff is cultural, can you really separate the reasons? This one is tough, at least for me.
The usual “You’re just jealous!” nonsense usually follows this one.
12. I’m always amazed at people who are in an argument with a feminist and then say something like “Well, I’m really not going to pay attention to what some woman on the Internet says.” Leaving aside the fact that the feminist is suppose to listen to them, even though they are also arguing on the Internet, it brings up the regularly used MRA argument that feminists aren’t focusing on the important things. Because, you know, feminists can’t do more than one thing with their lives. In fact, any feminist who posts on-line has chosen to spend her life doing that and only that—that feminist will never do anything else for any other part of the movement. And yes, that argument is as stupid as you think it is. In fact, I can say from personal experience that the stupid of the Internet has driven me to take an even more active role in the movement and I’m pretty sure I’m not the only feminist who can say that.
13. The It’s Sexism–Not Misogyny! argument: the comic geeks, of which I am one, love to use it. They pull out their Semantic Meter and go into a long winded rant about how there’s a difference and feminists use the word misogyny too much.
These are usually the same people who think our society is just sexist and not misogynistic. Now, it’s crossed my mind that the word misogyny has been thrown around too much. I’ve questioned my use of it. I’ve also wondered if people think misogyny only means honor killings and they never think about misogyny being one of the underlying foundation of many societies in the world. But no . . . sorry. You don’t get off that easy. Our society does hate women. It’s obvious in the treatment of Hillary Clinton by the media and the reaction to her by the average person posting on-line. It’s obvious in the way the brutalization of women—on TV, in the movies, in comics—is usually sexual and almost always glamorized. It’s obvious in how female bloggers are treated. You can call it sexist if it helps you sleep at night. But none of this is merely sexist—it comes from a basic principle of our society that has been taught to us and to our ancestors for a very long time. Misogyny.
Not to mention, when men cry about its “overuse,” it smells an awfully lot like men trying to define the situation, much like they’ve been able to define reality for thousands of years.
14. I have been told by more experienced feminists that you shouldn’t blame women when they act as tools of the Patriarchy. It’s a divide and conquer thing. I agree with that, mostly. But I have no patience for men who defend the Patriarchy so why should I give more leeway to women who defend the Patriarchy? I know, I know . . . divide and conquer. I’ll keep telling myself that . . .
15. I’ve also noticed a very “male” phenomenon on the Internet. It’s the Invade and Destroy tactic. I’ve only seen it used by men but I’m sure women use it as well—it is a time-honored tool of the Patriarchy, which is in all of our heads.
MRAs really love this one:
- Find someone talking like a feminist,
- Swarm her message board/blog,
- Comment like crazy and take over the discussion
- ???
- Profit!
It’s an aggressive move and it’s very much in line with the way men are taught to behave. False statistics, name-calling, red-herrings—they all play a part in this stupidity. And woe be it upon you if you should choose not to engage with them. Not only are you a coward but you’re a woman who hasn’t thought through her positions—you just can’t handle the MRA Truth! Also remember that all space is male space and that it probably never enters their minds that they are being rude, hostile, or whatever. Because they’re right and you’re wrong, just because you’re a woman.
16. If you think a woman arguing for gender equality equals that woman arguing for female supremacy, then you have a messed-up view of the world. I am not trying to rule over you with my Mighty Vagina (copyright pending). But the fact that you think because I want to be treated equally to you means that I want to be above you shows where you think women should be: beneath you on society’s ladder. Any woman who dares to try and climb that ladder must be kicked back down, right? Because two people just can not stand on the same rung of the ladder, right? Idiots. This is like that guy who freaked out about Simone’s writing of the Wonder Woman comic even though WW was doing in her comic what Batman or Superman do in their comics: saving people. Women don’t do that. Women don’t save people because that would mean she might be stronger or smarter than a man and that’s just not possible. To these type of people, women can not be treated equally (like when WW is given the same type of heroics in her story as a male superhero) because women are not equal. And the worst part of this may be that they don’t even realize that there is a gap missing in their thinking. To this guy, and others like him, Simone must hate men because she wrote a female character in the same heroic light as a male character. To this guy, women are less so for anyone to act as if a women are equal is to deny the superiority of men and therefore, that person must be a man hater.
17. Since this post is all over the map anyway, I’ll give you a couple of quotes made by smart women too. I’ll just throw everything into this post!
But it’s a great strategy. Disenfranchise women for millenia, then bitch them out for not producing the kind of works that came out of those ‘enlightened’ eras, you know, even though they were chattel who were not allowed to.
It has been less than two decades since women in the creative arts or professional community began to receive anything even remotely resembling equality of opportunity, and yet we are presented with one post after another excoriating women for not making up a few millenia of contributions to civilization in two decades.
18. Lastly, I’m watching this blog and I am eagerly awaiting the blogger’s updates.
